CENTRO-M

General Discussion on DemoPad or related products
cv27
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CENTRO-M - 2 way feedback

Post by cv27 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:58 am

That I can route commands to a Centro-8M is great. But if I do that, my expectations are that the Centro-8M will also handle 2 way feedback previously handles by the iDevice.

At this time, it seems that 2 way feed back criteria need to be re-entered for the Centro-8M. For some IP devices, I have > 50 conditions each having several actions. I would suggest that whenever "route commands via the processor" is selected, that all 2 way feedback is copied as well to the Centro-8M. There, it could be edited.

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Re: CENTRO-M - 2 way feedback

Post by DemoPad » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:18 pm

cv27 wrote:That I can route commands to a Centro-8M is great. But if I do that, my expectations are that the Centro-8M will also handle 2 way feedback previously handles by the iDevice.

At this time, it seems that 2 way feed back criteria need to be re-entered for the Centro-8M. For some IP devices, I have > 50 conditions each having several actions. I would suggest that whenever "route commands via the processor" is selected, that all 2 way feedback is copied as well to the Centro-8M. There, it could be edited.
We will implement the ability to copy feedback from the app section to the Centro section & vice versa to make this operation easier. Note though, it is not the case that just because something is 'linked to processor' that you always want to perform feedback on the processor, the app may also make an independent connection to it (if 'route commands via processor' is not ticked)

Stik
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Re: CENTRO-M Question...

Post by Stik » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:28 pm

DemoPad wrote:
Stik wrote:I've been learning how to configure the Centro-M and have come up with my first question.

I would like to have a custom number action trigger across all devices when changed on one. I have set the Centro-M as the primary processor and put a check mark in the appropriate number box, but it appears that Custom Number Actions may behave similar to how they work with feedback and not fire in these cases. I understand why this is required with feedback in order to avoid issues with circular logic, but have the option to set the number to itself in the feedback when appropriate and I want it to trigger.

Can someone confirm that this is, in fact, how Custom Number Actions work with the primary processor as well? If so, is there an other way to force these actions to occur across devices when desired?

Thanks,

Andy
Custom number actions do not currently fire on the Centro-8/8M, only on the app. You can however create a macro which fires if a variable changes - a number, flag or label. This is done in the macros/timers section.
Is there any plan to add this functionality? It seems like the purpose of using numbers as variables is to give the programmer a means to have Demopad react to changes in these variables. I don't see a need for these numbers to fire on the Centro-8 itself, but certainly there should be some way for the app to have these actions fire based on a change in the centrally stored variable value. Reprogramming the extensive variable based actions into Macros will be quite cumbersome and further amplify the "Spaghetti Programming" already inherent to the Demopad interface.

On a slightly related note, are their any plans to add folder organization to feedback? Subfolder organization to all areas? The other big improvement would be to allow users to move and change the order of the various commands/feedback within folders.

Thanks for the info,

Andy

cv27
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Re: CENTRO-M - 2 way feedback

Post by cv27 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:24 pm

DemoPad wrote:
cv27 wrote:That I can route commands to a Centro-8M is great. But if I do that, my expectations are that the Centro-8M will also handle 2 way feedback previously handles by the iDevice.

At this time, it seems that 2 way feed back criteria need to be re-entered for the Centro-8M. For some IP devices, I have > 50 conditions each having several actions. I would suggest that whenever "route commands via the processor" is selected, that all 2 way feedback is copied as well to the Centro-8M. There, it could be edited.
We will implement the ability to copy feedback from the app section to the Centro section & vice versa to make this operation easier. Note though, it is not the case that just because something is 'linked to processor' that you always want to perform feedback on the processor, the app may also make an independent connection to it (if 'route commands via processor' is not ticked)
That's great news, thanks. I also like your approach of making the copying back and forth of 2-way feedback between the Centro-8M and the app an option.

My reasoning for having the Centro-8M do the 2-way feedback is this. In my situation, the app on the iDevice is idling most of the time, except for processing 2-way feedback on unsolicited messages from other components in my network which can get pretty heavy at times. So, why not dispatch this task to the Centro-8M instead of having all iDevices work on it?

A side argument: my WiFi iDevices communicate at a maximum 300 Mb/sec, if I'm really lucky. My back bone, which connects the Centro-8M and other home automation components, is at 1 Gb/sec. To me, it makes sense to use the Centro-8M as a background work horse. But this logic is based on the assumption that the Centro-8M has sufficient cycles and low latency to better handle this task: is it the case?

Can DemoPad share information on the guts of the Centro-8M?

cv27
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Re: CENTRO-M Question...

Post by cv27 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:45 pm

Stik wrote:... On a slightly related note, are their any plans to add folder organization to feedback? Subfolder organization to all areas? The other big improvement would be to allow users to move and change the order of the various commands/feedback within folders.

Thanks for the info,

Andy
I second both suggestions (I submitted a similar suggestion back in December 2012). This is all about quantities. If you have a few commands/feedback's, no big deal to visually spot what you're looking for. If you have over 300 commands/feedback's for a device, it gets tedious.

For feedback, having to re-order commands means manually re-entering those commands to adhere to the desired logic: this is an enormous task, prone to errors. The ability to order of feedback's is a must.

cv27
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Re: Centro-8M: Just got it !!

Post by cv27 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:29 pm

DemoPad wrote:... The IR emitters are high power yes, we recommend only using the IR blasters supplied with the unit ...
It may be my misunderstanding of IR blasters, but my current set up with an iTach gear includes discrete IR emitters that are the 'glue on' type, as those supplied with the Centro-8M. As well, my setup includes an IR blaster which is an emitter physically constructed to diffuse the IR signal in a wide pattern; it it is not the 'glue on' type but rather a dome-like stick.

So, are you saying that any of the Centro-8M supplied emitters can act as a blaster?

cv27
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CENTRO-M: sending IP commands

Post by cv27 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:44 pm

'link to processor' option for the IP device. With this option selected, the Centro-8M will be able to send commands to the device.
I'm referring to the Centro-8M documentation. Does this mean that the Centro-8M will issue only those IP commands defined within its macro actions, and not those from iDevices?
If 'Route commands via the processor' is also ticked, then whenever the control app needs to send a command to the IP device, instead of connecting itself, it will send the command via the Centro-8M.
This to me sounds like a proxy where the Centro-8M will take charge of issuing IP commands on behalf of iDevices. Correct? If I select this option for a given IP device, it seems to me that any 2-way feedback definitions in the App will become non functional, since answers from IP device will come back to the Centro-8M's address, correct?
Last edited by cv27 on Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stik
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Re: CENTRO-M

Post by Stik » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:28 am

Another "Route Commands via Processor" question...

I have been using Demopad to control a Universal Devices ISY994 which uses a subscription based service for feedback. In order to set this up, it required setting up two devices in demopad: The first (1) to send a command to start the subscription and another (2) to send commands to the ISY. Feedback is received on both of these demopad devices because the feedback from the ISY has two different response terminators. This setup worked very well before the Centro-M.

I am now trying to move this setup over to a permanent subscription between the Centro-M and ISY that doesn't need to be restarted every time a Demopad mobile device resumes. The problem I am having is that the only feedback that the Centro seems to be receiving is feedback associated with the device that started the subscription.

I am assigning feedback to a centrally stored number and then using a Centro-M macro to appropriately set a centrally stored label based on that number. This method works for feedback on the first device but not the second.

Can anyone offer any possibilities as to what may be going on?

cv27
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CENTRO-M: certificate error

Post by cv27 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:37 pm

When establishing a secured Web session with the Centro-8M, I consistently get:
  • This page is insecure (broken HTTPS).
    Certificate Error
    There are issues with the site's certificate chain (net::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID).
    This CA Root certificate is not trusted because it is not in the Trusted Root Certification Authorities store.
I could not find the certificate. How do I resolve this?

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Re: CENTRO-M: certificate error

Post by DemoPad » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:39 pm

cv27 wrote:When establishing a secured Web session with the Centro-8M, I consistently get:
  • This page is insecure (broken HTTPS).
    Certificate Error
    There are issues with the site's certificate chain (net::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID).
    This CA Root certificate is not trusted because it is not in the Trusted Root Certification Authorities store.
I could not find the certificate. How do I resolve this?
Because the Centro is typically located at an internal IP address (typically 192.168.x.x) there is no valid trusted certificate which can be used; as they require an external domain name/ip address - the purpose of using such a trusted certificate would be to a) to prove the Centro is who it claims to be, and b) to secure the communication between Centro and browser. Point b) is taken care of by the certificate, but most browsers present the warning to the user because of a).

You can add the certificate to your browser as a trusted certificate, or you can upload your own certificate to the Centro if you wish, or most browsers allow you to continue anyway by accepting that the communication is not with a trusted recipient. Or, you can of course just use http to connect instead of https, but this traffic would not be secure on your network.

cv27
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Re: CENTRO-M: certificate error

Post by cv27 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:51 pm

DemoPad wrote:... You can add the certificate to your browser as a trusted certificate ...
Where can I find the Centro-8M certificate?

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Re: CENTRO-M

Post by DemoPad » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:08 pm

This is an example using Chrome:
Screen Shot 2016-10-31 at 20.58.51.png
There are various tutorials online regarding exporting & importing certificates, it is browser specific. With Chrome, you can just 'proceed to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx'
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cv27
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CENTRO-M: formatting issue ?

Post by cv27 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:12 pm

Minor issue. When I use the Centro-8M's Web interface, there is one label that doesn't resolve correctly:
snip-2_20161031170646.png
... while is should show "31 Oct".

Its definition:
snip_20161031170605.png
EDIT - I've found other static labels that simply don't appear. They partly overlap other objects: could this be an issue for the Centro-8M?
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Last edited by cv27 on Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cv27
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Re: CENTRO-M: certificate error

Post by cv27 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:23 pm

DemoPad wrote:... There are various tutorials online regarding exporting & importing certificates, it is browser specific. With Chrome, you can just 'proceed to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx'
I'm trying to simply import the certificate, but can't find the file.

cv27
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Re: CENTRO-M Question...

Post by cv27 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:05 pm

DemoPad wrote: Custom number actions do not currently fire on the Centro-8/8M, only on the app. You can however create a macro which fires if a variable changes - a number, flag or label. This is done in the macros/timers section.
This to me is quite a set back. Keep in mind that one of my objectives with the Centro-8M is to be able to access my project on the Centro-8M remotely simply using a Web session. This means having all the functionality of my project enabled on the Centro-8M.

I have about 20 routines that execute based on a custom number firing, not counting all the other custom numbers that set things. The work around suggested would be a nightmare for me to keep track of.

Is there any hope of having custom numbers enabled short term on the Centro-8M? Can you share what the issue is?

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